2$ Multi - 100 left 8900 field! Thoughts on this hand? Especially the river bet...

[PauloCot]

This was on a mates account... just wondering if any of you can tell me how he played the hand... I'd have played it similar but think it could be wrong. Cheers

> PokerStars Game #37566033489: Tournament #242010696, $2.50+$0.25 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXII (4000/8000) - 2010/01/02 23:01:32 ET
> Table '242010696 244' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
> Seat 1: merrr001 (169430 in chips)
> Seat 2: go_rio_go (27814 in chips)
> Seat 3: mark^terry (257200 in chips)
> Seat 4: nextbesthope (543540 in chips)
> Seat 5: EdDy9919 (257904 in chips)
> Seat 6: Tiltawhrl (539780 in chips)
> Seat 7: jimbon25 (89832 in chips)
> Seat 8: TjoePee (465944 in chips)
> Seat 9: cool0209 (413224 in chips)
> merrr001: posts the ante 800
> go_rio_go: posts the ante 800
> mark^terry: posts the ante 800
> nextbesthope: posts the ante 800
> EdDy9919: posts the ante 800
> Tiltawhrl: posts the ante 800
> jimbon25: posts the ante 800
> TjoePee: posts the ante 800
> cool0209: posts the ante 800
> mark^terry: posts small blind 4000
> nextbesthope: posts big blind 8000
> *** HOLE CARDS ***
> Dealt to merrr001 [Tc Ah]
> EdDy9919: raises 8000 to 16000
> Tiltawhrl: folds
> jimbon25: folds
> TjoePee: folds
> cool0209: folds
> merrr001: calls 16000
> go_rio_go: folds
> mark^terry: folds
> nextbesthope: calls 8000
> *** FLOP *** [Kd 2d Ad]
> nextbesthope: checks
> EdDy9919: checks
> merrr001: bets 32279
> nextbesthope: calls 32279
> EdDy9919: folds
> *** TURN *** [Kd 2d Ad] [8h]
> nextbesthope: checks
> merrr001: checks
> *** RIVER *** [Kd 2d Ad 8h] [7c]
> nextbesthope: checks
> merrr001: bets 8000
> nextbesthope: raises 32000 to 40000
> merrr001: calls 32000
> *** SHOW DOWN ***
> nextbesthope: shows [Td Qd] (a flush, Ace high)
> merrr001: mucks hand
> nextbesthope collected 203758 from pot
> *** SUMMARY ***
> Total pot 203758 | Rake 0
> Board [Kd 2d Ad 8h 7c]
> Seat 1: merrr001 mucked [Tc Ah]
> Seat 2: go_rio_go (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 3: mark^terry (small blind) folded before Flop
> Seat 4: nextbesthope (big blind) showed [Td Qd] and won (203758) with a flush, Ace high
> Seat 5: EdDy9919 folded on the Flop
> Seat 6: Tiltawhrl folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 7: jimbon25 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 8: TjoePee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
> Seat 9: cool0209 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[viffer]

Personally, I think this is a re raise or fold pre flop... does depend on what eddy is like... but I would look to see how serious he is about his hand after he put the min raise. As played the BB has massive odds to call with any 2 so I prefer isolating the opener and defining our opponents hands...

If BB called our RR pre flop and flop bet, then I could probably find a check on the river.

As played, BB could have anything here. His CRaise on the river does have me confused. I probably make the call against a maniac but against a passive / solid I would expect to be shown at least 2 pair... (I haven't looked at pot odds v probability he is bluffing ).

But for me, all in all, it's pre flop that defines this hand.

[PauloCot]

Interesting.

I never really considered the pre-flop part of it. I don't see how it can be a re-raise after an utg raise, especially as it would commit over a 1/3 of my stack. Guess it's a fold but I just assumed A10 on the button is a standard call, would be interesting to hear other opinions on it.

Thing is with these type of tournaments you're switching tables so often it is hard to gain an image of everybody's play, like you don't know whether they're capable of raising low pocks or less than A10 utg whereas some won't be raising anything but AK/1010+.

Yeh was a weird river play. Rarely see plays like that, which is why I couldn't figure out if I were right or wrong. Thanks for the feedback Viffer.

[Lee777]

Ida either 3 bet it or folded no way i am cold calling with a-10
A-10- on button is an Easy fold to an UTG raise.

[PauloCot]

In fairness my mate just told he was a maniac!

But yeh against average player would agree.

[Barton]

I fold preflop, 2nd choice 3 bet, never call.

Assuming I 3 bet, I make a continuation bet on that flop, if called, I try to check it down.

[viffer]

I don't see how it can be a re-raise after an utg raise, especially as it would commit over a 1/3 of my stack.

With Bblind at 8k UTG makes a min raise... to me, that doesn't mean much. Obviously, it's player / table dependent ( you can get a good feel in a five or 10 hands or so), but a reraise here often picks up these weak min raises. Sticking in say 35-40k here would probably have picked up the blinds, ante's and UTG's pointless min raise.

[bluffaholic]

I have not read the replies yet, so if this was already mentioned that is why.

Really my play would not change much regardless, but the more info the better decision will be made and there is always exceptions. Poker is extremely situational so less information should generally dictate much tighter play. More info. wider range of options. Got the disclaimer out of the way =)

IMHO flatting PF is the worst option. To justify flatting would require a very rare situation, which obv. requires detailed history of UTG, Button, SB and BB. Won't go into to much detail about flatting PF now, but I will mention some reasons it seems like a poor play.
1. SB or BB making a squeeze play is bad for us. 2. If short stack BTN shoves AI this allows UTG to bump it up and isolate, that is gross.
If we play this hand it is a must raise to 28k minimum to cover buttons stack. Our hand is mediocre at best so if we play this the goal is to take it down PF. Pot is 35.2k when action is on us and this may be the biggest factor. Let's quickly crunch the basic numbers. With antes + blinds and our stack this tightens are range and moves. Even if we get lucky and it is folded around after we flat this makes the pot 51.2k, ouch! a bad bad spot with A10o. UTG is making a CB probably at least 20-30k on any flop and we are folding every flop unless we flop a monster or decide to make a HERO shove and that just seems out of place here. We simply don't have a strong enough hand.

Taking a look at how the hand did formulate. 3 handed, pot is 59.2k and flop is draw heavy, but positive side is we have position. After BB and UTG check this flop I think we should bet, but not 32kish. Betting 19.5kish gets the same results so let's save 13kish. This gets value from our hand and controls the pot size allowing options on the turn. If we get raised on flop easy fold and since we used pot control we can bet the turn. If we get raised there it's still a fold and if they call turn bet this makes the river a 100% check behind and folding to a river bet often, but that is tricky.

PF and the river raise are the worst parts of the hand. PF is just not a good play and if you raise the river make it bigger because it's only a bluff and no value. That said if you get that spot somehow again just call the river bet. Betting the flop is fine but you blocked your turn options by making the bet size 32kish.

[nutbuster]

Just to focus on the flop play, I really feel that a check is the right play. No matter the size of the bet, anything that calls is beating A-10 right now, or a some type of big draw that is not that far behind or ahead by the math. On the plus side of a check keeps the pot small and gives a worst hand (like KQ) a chance to semi-bluff on a later street.