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viffer
05-04-2009, 07:56 AM
Villain is pretty solid, I've been a bit of a maniac (again...doh!) and villian can call down with A high particularly HU

$1/$2 Texas Hold'em Limit 2 players

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with [6h,6c]
Villain Raises ($1.50), Hero Raise ($2), Villain Call ($1)

Flop: [Qs, 7h, 5d]
Hero: Bet ($1), Villain: Raise ($2), Hero: Call ($1)
(Villain is capable of positional raises with big aces and draws, but not often a stone cold bluff)

Turn: [Qc]
Hero: Check ($0), Villain: Bet ($2), Hero: Raise ($4), Villain: Call ($2)
(too spicy?)

River: [8d]
Hero: Bet ($2) Villain: Raise ($4) Hero: Fold


Maybe the turn C/R is a bit spicy but my read was Villain might well be on a High card and the second Q makes him holding a Q less likely so I thought representing might just take it.

After he calls, I'm not sure what's the best line is. I'm thinking the river bet was a mistake. The turn call makes the High card less likely so I'm beat by almost anything that calls this river. So better to Check and hope he checks through or call and pray he's bluffing at it? I doub't I can check fold this by the river though.

I hate bet folding rivers... always seems a possibly huge mistake when check call cost the same and you get to showdown.
Any comments?

drep
05-04-2009, 11:59 AM
What is villain raising the flop with? It's hard for him to have an OESD since you have two of the sixes. It's a rainbow board, so it's not a FD. It's a dry board, so raising bottom pair is possible, but much less likely than him raising a pair of Qs or 7s

Also, you said you were playing like a maniac. Have you taken lines where you didn't three-bet top pair on the flop? Because if someone super-aggro check-raised a paired turn card after just calling a flop raise, I'm inclined to think they're FOS unless I've seen a smooth-call of top pair on the flop before.

On the river:
Among bet-fold, check-call, check-fold: I hate bet-fold the least. If villain is running an elaborate three-street bluff with A-high or bottom pair, tip your cap and give him the pot. Unless you've seen him get out of line, I'm fine folding this. Plus, if he's seen you bet-fold a river in a big pot, maybe he'll get frisky on a future hand and try to bluff-raise a river when you have a hand that can withstand a raise.

bcblack182
05-04-2009, 02:18 PM
This is the kind of hand i just try to show down as cheap as possible after i get raised on the flop.

The worst hand I would checkraise against almost any opponent on the turn would be a pair of 7's.

viffer
05-04-2009, 04:27 PM
Yeah, this is the kind of hand that the red mist comes down and the 3betting showdown money that lives in the corner comes and clicks the mouse.

Sometimes, I know I am betting without thinking. This is an example of that and hopefully airing my dirty laundry will help me to change my actions:p.

He would have raised a very wide range pre (PT shows him 88% PFR from SB HU)and my reads are he could well have raised an A or K on this flop. I've trapped him a few times like this before with TPTK of better, but your point is good that, it does look like i'm FOS with that CR. I should have known from the turn call that I was toast and not bet.

bcblack182
05-04-2009, 05:24 PM
I don't think you look "fos" from the checkraise, i give turn checkraises a lot of respect until i am given a reason not too. The problem is that when you checkraise you are valuebetting for your opponent when he has you beat and only getting value when he has A high and decides to call you down. Of course you also get value from any draws he is betting so that is good. I think if you do decide to checkraise this turn you should probably just check/call the river to get money from busted draws and any other air he might bet.

I really don't think the checkraise is bad, but then you open up a whole new can of worms against a strong opponent that will start 3-betting draws. I prefer to avoid that sort of game and just keep it simple and show it down cheap.

Barton
05-04-2009, 11:18 PM
i give turn checkraises a lot of respect until i am given a reason not too.


Morph time. We are now playing limit with 5 + players.

you raise with something like AK and get 1 caller (in front of you so lets say a blind or a limper)

Flop A 7 4 he checks you bet he calls. turn 7 or 4 he checks you bet he raises. My claim is in your typical low stakes game this is ALWAYS (like 98%) trips. I always pay it off but I bet thats a long term loser.

Naturally none of this applies when very short handed or if your opponents are decent players.

We all say maybe he would make this play with AQ or AJ (because we would), but i swear folding is the long term winner.

viffer
05-05-2009, 04:11 AM
Morph time. We are now playing limit with 5 + players.

you raise with something like AK and get 1 caller (in front of you so lets say a blind or a limper)

Flop A 7 4 he checks you bet he calls. turn 7 or 4 he checks you bet he raises. My claim is in your typical low stakes game this is ALWAYS (like 98%) trips. I always pay it off but I bet thats a long term loser.

Naturally none of this applies when very short handed or if your opponents are decent players.

We all say maybe he would make this play with AQ or AJ (because we would), but i swear folding is the long term winner.

Yes, I used to have a rule in small stakes full ring against stations, that I needed 2 pair or better to call a turn CR... admitidly I couldn't always do it with a made AK / AQ. I'd get run over with that rule nowadays though.