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View Full Version : Flopping two pair on awkward board



PauloCot
08-25-2009, 07:42 PM
This hand happened about 10 minutes ago so still fresh in my mind.

3$ rebuy tournament, final 5% of field, 9 man table. My stack is 170,000 about 40,000 above the average. Blinds 2,000/4,000 - I'm mid-position and have ace 10. (Ac 10h)

Villain 2 calls 4,000 (2nd position)
Hero calls 4,000
Villain 1 calls 4,000 (Button)
Small blind calls 2,000
Pot: 170,000

Flop: As Jc 10d

(Big blind mucks after flop)

Small blind bets 3,000 (All in)
Villain 2 bets 10,000
Hero calls 10,000
Villain 1 raises to 30,000
Villain 2 folds

What would you do here? Like my last post I'll write down what actually happens after I get a few opinions...

bcblack182
08-26-2009, 12:06 PM
How many chips does villain 1 have?
Assuming he has more chips behind, this is an easy fold I think unless you have a read that he overplays hands. You just don't beat anything that he is willing to play like this in a limped pot multiway.

PauloCot
08-26-2009, 04:36 PM
He had me outstacked

bcblack182
08-27-2009, 12:41 AM
I definitely fold unless he is a maniac/idiot. Readless I fold. Only hands I could imagine a reasonable player having are AQ AK but those would generally get raised preflop. I think he has exactly QK honestly, because I don't think he would limp any of the hands that beat you except KQ.

PauloCot
08-27-2009, 09:16 AM
Yeh I agree, I folded too. Although was a real tough one. He showed 10J however, which did annoy me. But yeh I think in the long run you have to fold there. Absolutely huge pot as well :(

bcblack182
08-27-2009, 11:05 AM
Oh yeah I forgot about 10 J, but I still think it is a good fold, the is the worst your ever gonna see I think. Annoying hand lol.

viffer
08-28-2009, 03:53 AM
this is an easy fold I think unless you have a read that he overplays hands.

Hmm, I can't tell you how much I've lost in situations like this... I don't find those folds easy at all. Maybe it's because my default setting for player reads is "idiot".:p Think I might have to start applying that read on myself too:(

PauloCot
08-28-2009, 08:36 AM
To be honest in hindsight I should have probably made the call. I think the key is that it's a 3$ rebuy tournament and therefore the standard of players is going to be poor at times. That's why I think it's a call for future reference.

Saying that I think bc is right, in a normal situation, perhaps 11$ MTTs and above, you can't call because unless they're an idiot they won't be raising with anything worse than this.

GottaFold
08-30-2009, 02:20 AM
I think it's more of a close decision, but I lean towards folding as well. I think if you raise preflop with the AT it plays better. An arguament can be made for not raising it in early position, but if you don't wanna raise then I say just muck it. I'm not a fan of limping.

bcblack182
08-30-2009, 10:08 PM
Hmm, I can't tell you how much I've lost in situations like this... I don't find those folds easy at all. Maybe it's because my default setting for player reads is "idiot".:p Think I might have to start applying that read on myself too:(

I used to never fold a hand like this but after being shown a better hand like 90% of the time for years I finally got it.

viffer
09-01-2009, 04:51 AM
Yep, I think I'm a couple more kicks in the teeth off reaching the same conclusion:p

PauloCot
09-06-2009, 02:33 PM
I think it's more of a close decision, but I lean towards folding as well. I think if you raise preflop with the AT it plays better. An arguament can be made for not raising it in early position, but if you don't wanna raise then I say just muck it. I'm not a fan of limping.

Yeh agreed, was called mid posish though.

Out of interest where is everybodys cut off point for A10 on a 9man table? I fold A9 in nearly every position. And while we're at it why not the same for AJ? lol

Pinko Panther
12-03-2009, 08:09 AM
Why the heck are you folding A9/A10 in nearly every position? If you have a big stack, imo, you should be raising A8+ from middle position (only when the blinds are significantly high). You should be stealing blinds with these hands and trying to outplay people on the board when you are called. Often you'll get flat called by better hands, but if you have position on a caller from the blinds and you both miss, he'll most often fold to a c-bet. If you raise from mid-position and get called by the button or cut-off, then be more cautious. If you're raised and you have a big stack, simply fold it.

Pinko Panther
12-03-2009, 08:10 AM
oh, and even early, there's nothing wrong with open raising A9/A10 from the cut-off and button.