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View Full Version : Good play or bad



Barton
04-25-2010, 05:29 AM
5 Handed 10/20 limit hldem game: You hand T8 clubs in the BB:

UTG raises to 20 two playes fold small blind calls you call:

Flop Qd 6c 3c

sb chks you chk UTG bets sb calls you check raise.

Do you consider this check raise a good or bad play and why

viffer
04-25-2010, 08:10 AM
I find these very player dependent. On an assumption that UTG is not passive and will therefore bet this flop AND SB is not fit or fold flop so will probably call, then yes, I like this play so long as it's followed up with a bet on the turn. Happy to cram the pot 3 handed on the draw and happier with initiative and fold equity on the turn and river.

If SB likely to fold or UTG might check the flop, it's probably a donk from me.

Barton
04-25-2010, 08:42 PM
I think it's a check call, so far no one agrees with me. I guess it's a "it depends" (or I'm wrong).

My assumption is your fold equity is negligible, and you may be 3 bet. Maybe it's a tweener, if you flopped a flush draw on an AK9 flop you probably wouldnt do it, and if it was an x x x flop I might do it myself.

viffer
04-26-2010, 04:27 AM
I don't think check call is "wrong", in fact it is probably the safest route of all, just that to win, you must make the flush. If you donk or C/R, you get the benefit of disguise if you hit it and the fold equity on a dry board. Particularly on this board, it is unlikely UTG connected and another brick on the turn will often enough enduce a fold.

If you're 3 bet, well now you know something about villians hand and you can check call it. and if you hit on river, the disguise from the flop C/R will often allow a river C/R too. C/Call all the way screams draw so if I was villian with AA I would probably check through to a river club.

The worst scenario here is he raises the turn

GottaFold
04-28-2010, 11:41 PM
If we have no reads on the SB player then I agree with Barton. I like a check/raise against UTG, but once the SB calls I usually like a check/call. It's probably pretty easy to get UTG to fold the turn a lot, but once the SB calls the flop out of position I think he often has something he'll call down with. If we know the SB is very passive then I probably like check/raising flop and betting every street.

viffer
04-29-2010, 05:45 AM
Interested in your thoughts... the SB calling the PFR says SB is poor / passive. I believe, if SB has anything worth playing out of position to an UTG raise (with no other callers) it should be a 3 bet otherwise fold. Calling is bad because it allows another random hand in with position on you( BB can play just about any 2 here). So based on that one round of betting :eek:, I see sb as a typical loose passive, peel a flop hoping for an A and fold the turn when he hasn't connected, or worse, chase an ace to fold river.

Comments?

billyvu
06-10-2010, 04:35 PM
CR or CC are all standard lines.Depending on how good the UTG plays, ill mix it up 50/50.No ace flop is a good flop to CR either way, you have good equity when SB calls if you decide to CR flop.I might check turn after flush misses on turn if UTG is good and have SB call again.

DiesalShip
06-20-2011, 12:25 PM
need more info to be honest. stack size, player info etc...... most times id just chk call most likely.