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rob
12-06-2010, 05:12 PM
If you haven't been following, PTP has a nice resource for following the potential regulation and licensing of US poker rooms. http://www.parttimepoker.com/poker-regulation

GottaFold
12-07-2010, 08:08 AM
Hmmm... Interesting stuff. After reading some of those articles and some of the huge thread 2+2 has talking about it, I don't know if I want this bill to get passed or not. I have no idea if it'll make things better or worse for me being Canadian. It sounds like it could potentially be better to play on FTP or Stars without all the US grinders there, but then after the blackout there could be huge amounts of US fish that I won't have access to. I'm curious to see how this all plays out.

rob
12-07-2010, 09:48 AM
I believe the most recent bill allows for non-US players to play on US sites 2-3 years after the blackout date. I'm not really sure why there is a delay.

For the industry as a whole I think the proposed bill is good. But naturally the blackout date puts a lot of people in the tough decision of either playing on unregulated sites (which will be explicitly illegal), playing live, or making a significant life change.

GottaFold
12-07-2010, 11:46 AM
It'll be rough at first, but I also think this bill is good for poker long term. It seems like it's gonna pass, based on most people's speculation so far . How do you think this would affect some of the smaller prop sites that do currently allow US accounts? They have such low traffic already it seems like it could crush them to lose their US players. Should we be paranoid about losing our funds if these sites just give up and shut down because of this bill?

rob
12-07-2010, 12:42 PM
It'll be rough at first, but I also think this bill is good for poker long term. It seems like it's gonna pass, based on most people's speculation so far . How do you think this would affect some of the smaller prop sites that do currently allow US accounts? They have such low traffic already it seems like it could crush them to lose their US players. Should we be paranoid about losing our funds if these sites just give up and shut down because of this bill?

I think it's pretty reasonable to keep your balances low on smaller US-facing prop sites right now. They may become explicitly illegal under US law and will be faced with the decision of either ignoring the law or blocking US players. Keeping your balance low will limit the risk that you are at the back of the line if there is a run on the banks. I don't anticipate any problems with the rooms we support right now but you know, if you play 1/2NL and have $10k in your account, you might as well trim that down.

fishyshark
12-07-2010, 02:43 PM
So what will happen then, will all US-player have to leave, Stars, Fulltilt, Cereus.....?

rob
12-07-2010, 03:02 PM
So what will happen then, will all US-player have to leave, Stars, Fulltilt, Cereus.....?

Rooms will have to decide if they're willing to sit out of the US market for the prospect of eventually getting a license. They would be given a period of time to cash players out and cease US poker operations.

Theres speculation that some rooms will choose to ignore the law and will continue to serve the US with no intention of ever receiving a license. Rooms that are associated with sportsbooks are likely in this category. Cereus might be in this category as well. But rooms that respect the law will need to cash out their US customers and cease US operations by the deadline. Tilt and Stars will almost certainly be in this category.

bcblack182
12-07-2010, 03:06 PM
"A "blackout" period of 15 months would follow passge of the bill where no operators would be able to offer legal online poker. The bill does not change the legal status of playing online poker - that is to say, if it's legal for you to play online now, this bill apparently wouldn't change that."

From the ptp site. Sounds like for us nothing would change legally from a player perspective, the question would be will the sites voluntarily block us so that they would be within the law for future hopes of regulation.

My guess is that sites that blocked WA etc... players to stay within the law would probably block US players and try to get licensed, while sites that have continued to serve WA etc... residents will probably stay in the US market. Just a guess though.

fishyshark
12-07-2010, 03:17 PM
and will there then an US only Pokerstars besides some non-US Pokerstars or will they voluntarily give up all there US-players, that would cost them a fortune, or they are afraid that the US military raids there headquarter and injails all their managers and owners?

drep
12-07-2010, 04:36 PM
Rob,

Do you have any speculation on what you think Cake and Merge would do?

fishyshark
12-07-2010, 04:53 PM
What will happen to the US-players who still play at unlizencened sites after this law takes effect?

twitterbell
12-07-2010, 05:28 PM
Fishyshark- there is no player penalty in the bill- the fines and/or jail time is aimed at the operators.

RE: Merge- here is the latest on them:



Merge Network Comment: Again, super-unofficial, but a rep from Merge said the company isn’t going anywhere. The comment was in a thread discussing Spin32’s decision to leave the Merge Network; a Merge Business Development Manager responded to the discussion saying “Its business as usual for Merge we aren’t leaving the US market we are looking to build on what has been a great year and are very excited about what the new year will bring.”


The above is from the latest on the bill from Part Time Poker, link here:

http://www.parttimepoker.com/online-poker-bill-updates-12-7

twitterbell
12-07-2010, 05:30 PM
Link to the latestet version of the bill here:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1MlKO5as4lPA4NyA6qVOwqbh-fA0DwDPMHpd-5PhglXrAhlDW20OzdKJRIUt4&hl=en&authkey=COaI7roJ

bcblack182
12-07-2010, 06:01 PM
I think cake will be business as usual. They would regain market share and I doubt they will be competetive going the legal route.

drep
12-07-2010, 06:10 PM
Thanks guys.

Erwinius
12-07-2010, 06:32 PM
Rooms will have to decide if they're willing to sit out of the US market for the prospect of eventually getting a license. They would be given a period of time to cash players out and cease US poker operations.

Theres speculation that some rooms will choose to ignore the law and will continue to serve the US with no intention of ever receiving a license. Rooms that are associated with sportsbooks are likely in this category. Cereus might be in this category as well. But rooms that respect the law will need to cash out their US customers and cease US operations by the deadline. Tilt and Stars will almost certainly be in this category.
In my opinion none of the big sites will sit out, because either they alrady partnered up with B&M Vegas Casinos like BWIN (partypoker) with Harrahs,
Pokerstars with Sands (Venitian) etc.
or most of the Vegas Casinos can be easily taken over from online pokersites. The new Cosmopolitan Casino that opens this week is still owned by Deutsche Bank.
Tropicana, Hard Rock, Station Casinos filed bancrupcy not too long ago.
Fountainebleau filed bancrupcy without even finishing constructions.
The Rio Hotel the home of WSOP is for sale (Harrahs can't find a buyer for 770 mio).
If this bill passes, which I doubt, Vegas Casinos will be owned by large Online Pokercompanies and NOT the other way around.

twitterbell
12-07-2010, 07:09 PM
Harrah's is already partnered with the 888 network via 888's B2B platform Dragonfish. The head guy there used to work at party, so that's probably where the confusion comes in.

They are live in the Uk- www.rwsop.com (http://www.rwsop.com)

They have a mobile application.

They have a facebook application in beta- see US play money site- www.wsop.com (http://www.wsop.com)


Rake on the uk site is capped at 4 dollars per pot, not 3.00. It is a little lower at the baby micros and 3.00 flat at the nosebleeds, I think- it is on the rwsop site if you want to be sure. I sure hope that is not what we can expect here. There is no rakeback - they have a VIP program which is 36% at top tier if I recall correctly, and 500.00 deposit bonus. It is under 10% rb equivalent at the lowest level, I think. I don't have time to go find the site, but a little googling should get you what you need if you are curious.

Technically, they could be opeartional very quickly in the states.

rob
12-08-2010, 12:10 AM
From the ptp site. Sounds like for us nothing would change legally from a player perspective, the question would be will the sites voluntarily block us so that they would be within the law for future hopes of regulation.


The big hassle for players will likely be moving funds and potentially tougher games.

drep - my speculation matches what twitterbell posted, that Merge would ignore the blackout. I haven't heard anything re: Cake and have no idea.

rob
12-08-2010, 12:12 AM
I want to point this thread out from Chris at PTP who is covering the Regulation (yes, the same Chris who ran the PTP prop team):
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57/poker-legislation/aga-writing-legislation-892005/

It seems he was on to something there in October.

Erwinius
12-08-2010, 07:17 PM
Agenda is off
http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/policy-racket/2010/dec/08/harry-reid-online-poker-legalization-falls-agenda/

Adam
12-08-2010, 08:01 PM
Agenda is off
http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/policy-racket/2010/dec/08/harry-reid-online-poker-legalization-falls-agenda/
I actually think this is good news!

Anyone notice that the senetor is from Nevada...I mean it could be entirely possible that he wants to stimulate the economy in Vegas and Reno by shutting down online poker for 15 months and trying to get people to come out to Nevada more. Also it would not suprise me if Senetor Reid is in tight with the big wigs of the Vegas casinos who want a peice of the online poker and gambling action.

We all know how long things take for the US government to complete such as health care and tax cuts etc. So I think if this law went through we would be waiting much longer than 15 months for the online poker rooms to come back because I would guess there would be extensions and restrictions many poker rooms would have to go through.

Adam

Barton
12-08-2010, 09:01 PM
My speculation is that the politicians will fuck it up in any way thy can,

djnumb
12-08-2010, 09:08 PM
As already speculated on PTP, statements clarified...still in play.

djnumb
12-08-2010, 09:10 PM
This is why people need to relax, and just follow the story. Everyone is having a panic attack and demanding specific answers when the details of the bill are not even finalized. I have already decided to avoid 2p2 until this is finalized. People have lost their minds.

Barton
12-08-2010, 11:45 PM
Reid's a shill for the casino industry, he does what ever they tell him to do. This goes way back towhen he was onthe gaming commission.


I read about 3 sentences of all this and my eyes glazed over, but isn't there some free trade law that says ou can't stiff all the little countries and make a USA monopoly?

EricBlade
12-09-2010, 11:36 AM
I think that's the same sort of law under which we told the Caribbean operators to stuff themselves... :(

Adam
12-15-2010, 02:14 AM
Agenda is off
http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/policy-racket/2010/dec/08/harry-reid-online-poker-legalization-falls-agenda/
So is the poker add on still off?

I heard the tax cut bill has come back and might pass soon.

Barton
12-15-2010, 02:54 AM
We won't know what happems until it happems. Rest assured of one thing though a license will somehow require all our wins and losses are reported to the IRS

fishyshark
12-16-2010, 11:25 AM
What exactly means this blacout period and what sense should that make?

Barton
12-16-2010, 05:25 PM
It means so the USA can gain a competitive advantage for 18 months while other sites spin their wheels. It also likely means the USA will have a chance to somehow keep other companies out of the usa market,